It's really that easy



rooierus :
AynRandPaulRyan? *shudders*
Ayn Rand, Rand Paul, and Paul Ryan walk into a bar. They order their drinks and then they all die from consuming tainted alcohol due to a lack of regulation.
goodlifesomehow :
As a supervisor, I don't... 1. make physical contact except for handshakes, high fives, fist bumps 2. comment on physical appearance other than dress code stuff I'm male, but gender is irrelevant when following these two very simple guidelines. Edit: typo
Male, or female, this is the proper way to interact as a supervisor. I think the disconnect comes when the relationship comes between the Owner/CEO, and the “lesser” employees.
arisyl :
I think that there are little things that happen between men and women that have been normalized overall in society that have people confused. I see a lot of "Men get fired for doing nothing wrong!" Comments, but I fired a man once for "doing nothing wrong" in his eyes, when in reality he... - Kept touching the female employees when they told him not to. I don't mean putting his hands on them and manhandling them roughly, but rather he kept touching the smalls of their backs, their hair, their shoulders, their arms. He'd snag women by the elbows and pull them back to him, invade personal space and be almost on top of us when he spoke to us; he also had a habit of cornering women, trapping them in uncomfortable spots they couldn't get out of without starting an incident. He was told to stop, and when he didn't comply with their personal requests he was given a hard warning from HR. Not once did he ever interact with a male employee like this, and we had the video to prove it. - Kept making inappropriate comments about the female employees, nothing over the top per se, just casual comments about what they were wearing, how they walked, mentions of their weight, makeup ( or lack theteof ), what they chose to wear and how he thought they could improve, and so forth. Most of this was said to other male employees, and were reported by them, or the women that managed to overhear him. - General insubordination when dealing with a female superior, by pressuring her, and talking down to her, forcefully asserting himself as right, and getting domineering and loud when rebuked. She would tell him to do it one way, and he would insist his way was better before grabbing her to show her, it was mansplaining at its finest. When he was presented with a folder of infractions, after months of warnings, and writeups, he was completely taken by surprise, and later tried to sue us for firing him when he "didn't actually do anything!" I imagine he continies to maintain his innocence to this day, and likely doesn't realize what he did because these are things that are normal, and have happened for years in regards to women in the workplace. They're not okay, but they've happened unchecked for so long that we as a society THINK they're okay. He called me a fat feminist bitch who was the reason men were too scared to work with women, which didn't help his case, and had to be escorted off of the property not because he wouldn't go, but because security was genuinely concerned with how angry he was.
Worked with one guy who had to be addressed by management because one on one talks by our shift leaders just didn’t sink in. He had no idea he was harassing this woman. He would ask her out, he liked her. She said no. Okay. A week later, he’d ask her out again. She said no. And after the third time she asked someone to step in, but not report because she didn’t think he was trying to be creepy, just didn’t get that it was the end of the conversation. He thought it was a compliment to her and that letting her know he was wanting to date her was this nice thing happening to her. Just didn’t get it. He did stop though when finally we all said, you’re about to be fired. Don’t talk to her. She doesn’t want to talk to you. Be a professional. You will not be scheduled the same shifts, but if you happen to work together, don’t, whatever you do, talk to her about anything besides work. And he didn’t do anything but that, but I also felt like he still didn’t understand why.
d4rkh3lm3t :
What she says is spot on, but even following all of that simple advice you still need to be prepared for the rumor mill. If I take a younger male colleague out for a business dinner and drinks, it's mentoring. If you do the same thing with a female colleague, and have the same conversations, it's something else. Shitty for both sides honestly, and you just have to work through it.
This is the jist of it. “They spend a lot of time together” and “he’s really taking a personal interest in her work” are kind of bad rumors to be on the male end of esp if the guy is married and the woman is younger. Avoiding appearances is important
[deleted] :
I work for a big corporation. Long story short, I train people. I have a lot of seniority. I mentor people, to an extent. Sometimes I have people under my wing for weeks at a time. I am a man. I have had many uncomfortable situations that make me VERY careful about how I deal with women at work. Here are some examples, not all of them. 1. Called a woman whose name I did not know yet, “ma’am.” She got upset and made a big scene in front of the whole class, everyone was uncomfortable. 2. Referred to a group of people as “you guys”. I grew up in the Midwest where that is a gender neutral term. Was told by a woman that I was being disrespectful by excluding her. 3. At the end of our time together, I always tell all my students the same thing: “This doesn’t have to be the end of our relationship. If you ever need help as you go forward in your career, never hesitate to call or email me, I’m here for you! It’s my job to support you even after you leave my class!” Once I had a class that was primarily young women (unusual) and I heard through the grapevine later that they thought my parting message sounded like I was hitting on them or hoping to score a date or something. That REALLY upset me, I’m not gonna lie. I took that very personally. This was told to me a year or so later by the one woman in the group who lasted more than a year; the rest of them couldn’t hack it. 4. Only once did I have to deal with an actual “oh shit” HR complaint. In my industry, everything has a proper name/ term. But sometimes things have nicknames. I always use the correct term in my classes, but I make a point to inform them of the nicknames. One example is a common malfunction with hydraulic regulators that is properly referred to as “hunting” but is more commonly called “jacking off” by people in the field. I don’t shy away from this in class, because the LAST thing I want is some 23 year old fresh employee to go their first job site and have a customer tell her the equipment is jacking off, and her not know WTF they are talking about. When I convey this information I treat it seriously and preface it with “now, I know this is somewhat vulgar but…” I was cleared of any wrong doin but told my HR to stop conveying this information to female employees. Everyone acknowledged this was doing them a disservice but we had to cover our collective asses. These last two examples bother me a lot. I take a lot of pride in my job. I am given young, smart, well educated engineers who usually have never done an actual job in their entire lives. They know this, and they are scared shitless. They are about to get thrown into dangerous, risky, high-pressure situations, often halfway across the world in a foreign culture, maybe their first time leaving the US. It’s my job to prepare them, and I take it very seriously. When it comes to women at work, it is not possible for me to prepare them 100 percent for what they are going to face. There are lots of things I think these young women should know, that I don’t tell them because if I do I could lose my job. Sucks for everyone involved. Another time, I overheard a discussion about where a young woman who had just finished her training was going to be sent On her first assignment. It wasn’t my businesses really, but I interjected. I told them not so send her there. I asked what her living accommodations were going to be, and they told me. I told them they MUST not put her in those accommodations , they NEED to provide an alternative. I was told by these (female) managers that I was out of line, and that this young woman could do anything that her male counterparts could do, and told to drop the issue immediately “or else”. They sent her, and she quit via phone call 2 days into the job.

Nolenag :
As someone who wanted to become a teacher; it's not that easy. One false accusation and you can kiss your job goodbye.
I was a substitute. I did everything in my power to NEVER be alone with a kid, or even a few kids. On a few occasions where i had them talk to me after class i'd always try to be standing in the doorway, in view of the hallway cameras. It takes one kid who wants to "get even" with a teacher to ruin everything.
SpeedycatUSAF :
I had two girls falsely accuse me of exposing myself to them. It was a nightmare. Lawyers were getting involved etc. Had a connection with the sheriff department who adminstered a polygraph for me. When the girls found out I took one and passed, they admitted to making the whole thing up. So ya know. Take that for what it's worth.
Yeah the stat sounds like it's mostly dudes who feel caught in the crosshairs of a culture spat where they have no idea what's going on because they aren't guys that are implicated in sexual harassment to begin with. The ones that are sexually harassing women are definitely NOT uncomfortable mentoring women.
LowTech8828-2 :
The guys that are worried aren't the one's being dirt bags. If I'm worried about dieing while swimming with sharks, I don't go book a trip to go swim with sharks.
I work in an office primarily female. Always keep door open if female employee in office, never stay alone with a female employee after hours. Id never be inappropriate, but at least one person was let go because of an accusation, possibly more but kept quiet. I know him personally, he said he never touched her. No proof was given, just being accused lost his job and got her transfered. Giving additional work usually goes to single people willing to work extra. Which is only the two guys in office.
mystghost :
It may seem simple as this stuff. And the stuff she lists are both simple enough, and fair. But it is not reasonable to attribute all of mens fears about mentoring to violating, wanting to violate, or inadvertently violating the tenants she lays out. It is also not unreasonable to avoid the situation entirely. You can do everything right, and still get into trouble, even if you don't get fired - it isn't unreasonable to have these fears. I would argue it's chicken-hearted to allow those fears to keep you from doing the right thing; but it isn't as simple as JUST do X and DON'T do Y and everything will be fine.
I once had someone make an he complaint about me because when we talked my eyes wander (not up and down her) just mindlessly wander. Her complaint specifically stated she did not feel it was in anyway intended to be inappropriate eye contact, nor did she feel I was ogling or looking at her in a specific way. Simply because I didn’t look her directly in the eyes during our random conversation about non work related non sense. The hr person then interviewed other women in the office to see if I made them feel uncomfortable at any point, answer was a no, he barely leaves his office. Result: suspended for a week. I left that job 2 weeks later. Women deal with a lot of shit but at the same time wtf. An employee made a pointless complaint and I got suspended
IceClimbers-Bungalo :
I feel like her overreaction to a statistic is why those managers feel that way in the first place lmao

Fudgeismyname :
The problem is that there ARE bad apples out there and because of that, it only takes one accusation from a bad apple and you're toast.
I've almost been fired for "she thinks you're staring at her ass" from a 16 year old employee who hated me. Even though I'm out as a gay dude and have never made moves to any employee before. She just hated me so I suspected she was trying to retaliate because I made her do her job. That shit sucked. And I had to keep working with the little monster.
Zeebidy :
I’m just going to say it, this is an idiotic take on the article and many people in this comment section haven’t even thought this through. You instantly think that it is men being unable to keep it in their pants is the reason they are uncomfortable mentoring women. First of all, men are not sex crazed beasts contrary to popular belief. Secondly why, if men were sex crazed beasts, would they feel uncomfortable if they were that terrible of people. Just a little logic. I’m also a little pissed that this tweet pretty much goes along the line that it is a man’s fault that he might be uncomfortable mentoring women. If women are uncomfortable around men it’s the man’s fault, if men are uncomfortable around women it’s still the man’s fault. I can think of countless reasons why a man might be uncomfortable mentoring women. Simple ones are pretty much what this woman is doing, accusing men of things they may or may not have done. Secondly there is pressure in training of anyone and you don’t want to be seen as sexist while judging or training others.
Worked in higher Ed for years. Still do. It’s common for teachers (even female teachers) to install their own security camera in their office because of accusations that get levied at them by students.
algernon_moncrief :
People are allowed to feel uncomfortable. There is nothing wrong with feeling uncomfortable or saying "I'm uncomfortable with this". Suggesting that men (and apparently only men?) Have to just "grow up" and not feel uncomfortable in challenging situations is unfair and counterproductive. What we need to do instead is acknowledge the discomfort, find the source of the discomfort, and learn from the discomfort. We need to use discomfort as a teaching tool. If you're comfortable you're not learning. Men can express discomfort. Men are not required to be ok with everything. Women can express discomfort. Women are not required to be ok with everything. How hard is that? Empathy and compassion are uncomfortable but they are the most powerful tools we have. Be patient with people, we're all just trying to figure life out.

dumbfuckmagee :
I've been accused of sexual harassment for simply training a girl the same way I do every other person I train.

Eugarae :
That's like saying women have never made up accusations for clout/revenge, I've personally had 2 women accuse me of both sexual assault to the police and spread rumors to my friends/family/peers that I raped them (for a little background I broke up with them in both cases beforehand after they became excessively controlling, jealous of my friends[who were literally just gamer buddies from around the world/country] and borderline abusing me both mentally and physically, with both cases requiring heavy intervention from other people before they left me alone [until they both falsely reported me to the police, on completely separate occasions])

whenitdoubtpinkyout :
For all the people in the comments saying that men are afraid to work with women because of the risk of being falsely reported, absolutely fair. But just to round this perspective up, lots of women are afraid to work with men or be alone with them at work in fear of being sexually harassed. Both happens, let's not demonize working with women when women had to put up with this shit since before a report even existed or mattered

Jaymuhson :
I think the point of this is many men are probably scared a woman can make up a story and say they flirted with her or sexually assaulted her and completely lose their jobs based on a false accusation...
Yeah, and even if the person they're working with doesn't accuse them, someone else can make up their own narrative. There are plenty of people out there who believe "men and women can't be friends because the dude will always want to fuck". I'm ace and have had rumors start because I got friendly with a girl at work. Like, there's a reason as an adult man, I'd absolutely never want to be alone with a child. I'd never harm a child, and generally like kids, but people act like an adult dude alone within 100 feet of a child is just a predator by default. And the type of people who get that shit in their head immediately are also the type that'd act on that assumption stupidly.
DrParadoxical :
Yea, no. I refuse to be left alone without a video record of workplace interactions with the opposite sex. People are shitty and all it takes is the suggestion that you might have misbehaved to tank years of reputation building. And I say this as a pretty effeminate gay man.
I’m a trans woman and I have to basically live in the closet at work. Being AMAB means people won’t trust you, so it’s just common sense to never be in a place where you might need to be trusted
test_user_3 :
So anytime a man feels uncomfortable around a woman it's because he's a sex crazed pervert with no self control? Quit generalizing.

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